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Poster:
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Lou Davenport |
Date:
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April 12, 2008 09:15:54pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Re: What do you think of my "Essential Grateful Dead?" |
You have some nice shows in there (5-21-74, 6-3-76, 2-26-77, 5-25-77, 4-24-78) but you've also included iconic but overrated shows (8-27-72, 2-9-73, 5-8-77). You apparently have 6-8-77 in your ipod, but you didn't include the whole show or 6-9-77?
A few other shows that I'd put before many in your list:
1968: 2-14, 10-12, 10-13, 10-20
1969: 4-4, 4-5, 4-12, 4-13 (any sound better and play better than 10-25)
1970: 1-2, 4-12, 5-15, 9-19, 10-31 (nothing from 1970?)
1971: 2-18, 4-28, 4-29, 8-6 (nothing from 1971?)
1973: 9-11, 10-25, 10-30, 11-21
1976: 6-9, 10-15
1978: any of the October Winterland shows
All sound great as well as play great. I would have mentioned others, but I assume from your list that you're steering clear of commercial releases.
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Poster:
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smgarcia |
Date:
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April 12, 2008 10:51:03pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: What do you think of my "Essential Grateful Dead?" |
Hi Lou...this is what I have from your suggestions:
1968: 10-12 (I'm listening to this now and I forget how great the Dead were in their earlier years)
1969: 4-5
1970: 5-15 (early and late, this one is certainly iconic too), 9-19
1971: 2-18, 8-6 (I have an AUD)
1973: 9-11
1976: 10-15
1978: 10-21 (I like this one but I don't think it's a great recording...)
I guess I'm sensitive about the whole sound quality for my friend because I at one point was like that. I aimed for the top recording shows because my appreciation level of the Dead was only superficial. I got caught up in hiss, unbalanced mixing, shit like that. Now my tolerance is much lower as I know how to listen to the band. So I'm trying to be careful if that makes sense.
The other thing...why do you think Veneta is overrated? I can see Barton being overrated but frankly I think it is by far, the most superior sounding gig (the matrix version). Plus you get what I consider A+ efforts from Mountain Dew, Scarlet > Fire, Dancin', Lazy > Supp, Deal that are very hard to exceed from other shows. Yep it's all subjective. I think the concert as a whole is not as great as people say it is however.
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Poster:
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smgarcia |
Date:
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April 12, 2008 11:27:07pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: What do you think of my "Essential Grateful Dead?" |
Then again....8/6/71 is a great AUD. Jesus
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Poster:
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Lou Davenport |
Date:
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April 13, 2008 07:40:48am |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: What do you think of my "Essential Grateful Dead?" |
What you say about the importance of sound quality is reasonable. The shows I recommended are all at least A- sound, but I think you may be going for A across the board. IIRC, 10-21-78 has the worst sound of the available SBDs of that run, but I also see your point about sticking with what you already have. After all, 250 shows should provide at least a few good ones to start with (not quite lol).
Given your mission, how about "Grateful Dead Starter Kit", rather than "Essential Grateful Dead"?
I echo Ashes in commending you for giving of your time to evangelize in this way. Listening to the Winterland 1973 box, I've found myself feeling sorry for all the people who have no idea of all the amazing, creative music those guys produced.
I think Veneta is a perfectly decent show from a few weeks before some much better shows (the best of which, however, have been released commercially and so may be off your list). The Playin' smokes, but I find the Dark Star a bit boring.
Barton Hall is an exceptionally clean and tight show, but Jerry in particular plays conservatively, going for can't-miss licks rather than exploring new possibilities, so there's not much to keep me interested. The much-ballyhooed Scarlet>Fire is a perfect example of that. The Dew is sketchy until the last few minutes, which do indeed rock. All of that said, I have to acknowledge it would be a good show for newbies.
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Poster:
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smgarcia |
Date:
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April 13, 2008 11:51:30am |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: What do you think of my "Essential Grateful Dead?" |
Lou, Grateful Dead Starter Kit is perfect. I'm going to use that. Thanks for the suggestion!
So I've added:
1968-10-12 - Avalon Ballroom, SF, CA (SBD)
1970-09-19 - Fillmore East, NYC, NY (SBD)
1971-08-06 - Hollywood Palladium, LA, CA (AUD)
1976-07-18 - Orpheum Theatre, SF, CA (SBD) (second set only as it's so unique).
1977-06-09 - Winterland Arena, SF, CA (SBD+)
and I booted one of the Hampton 89 shows, and the 10-2-1977 gig.
Now, regarding the Veneta show, I actually prefer the one a week earlier at the Berkeley Community Center (1972-08-21) as that Playin' In The Band is one of my personal favorites and I think that show overall has a more upbeat tempo and energy than Veneta. I'm considering swapping that one. Are you familiar with 8-21? Besides that I have 07-21-1972 and several Europe 1972 ones.
Speaking of Euro 1972, I have a handful of shows but I just haven't gotten around to listening to them in detail. So I'm not sure what's really good. I have:
1972-04-14 - Tivoli Theater
1972-05-03 - Olympia Theater
1972-05-11 - Rotterdam Civic Hall, Rotterdam, Netherlands (SBD)
1972-05-16 - Radio Luxembourg
1972-05-23 - The Strand Lyceum, London, England (SBD)
1972-05-26 - The Strand Lyceum
Lastly, I don't own any of the commercially released shows so I can't include them in this starter kit. :-)
This is so much fun, I've spent a ton of time over the past few days working on this. I just don't have enough space on the DVD! It's quite challenging, actually.
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Poster:
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Lou Davenport |
Date:
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April 13, 2008 02:14:01pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: What do you think of my "Essential Grateful Dead?" |
I remember all the August Berkeley shows as having great playing, but it's been a while since I've listened to them, so they kind of blend together in my mind. I think I remember one of the shows having lesser sound quality than the others, but I can't remember which.
Most of my Europe 72 listening lately has been from the commercial releases. And the shows that stick out in my mind from non-commercial sources aren't in your list, except for Rotterdam, which has an amazing (longest-ever) Dark Star, but that may not be appropriate to a starter kit and the sound quality is only A-.
You're probably already thinking of this, but to keep your friend from being overwhelmed I'd point her to something like the top three shows to get started with. I personally would have her start with 5-25-77 since the first set is so astonishingly tight and the sound is so clean.
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Poster:
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smgarcia |
Date:
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April 13, 2008 02:33:41pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: What do you think of my "Essential Grateful Dead?" |
Lou you are reading my mind. I have already constructed a GD Starting Kit Listening Guide. In the document I write a few quick notes about the band but then I say "If you only want 3 concerts to go on your iPod then take Veneta, Cornell, and Hampton 89" (I think it was Hampton but can't remember.)
I also give a brief description for each show, why I put it on there, and any nice tidbits. It really is a nice document. The top three might change...I am so enamored with 5-25-77 but Cornell is like Mt. Everest. It may not be the best mountain or most challenging to climb but it is the most famous. Know what I mean?
I'm also considering swapping Veneta for Berkeley. My Berkeley copy is fantastic. I don't know. It's like swaping 1a for 1b.
And for the guy who mentioned 10-1-94, this really is a very good show. I think I'm going keep it. But I am going to include Iko Iko from Spectrum 95, The Eleven, and a version of The Last Time on my "special" GD concert.
This whole thing brings me happiness. I started listening to the Dead about 3 years ago and it's the only thing I turn on now. They are such a talented, special band. Nothing compares as far as I know.
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Poster:
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AshesRising |
Date:
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April 18, 2008 01:13:19pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: What do you think of my "Essential Grateful Dead?" |
smgarcia: I wish there were people like you in this world.
--- AshesRising
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Poster:
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jglynn1.2 |
Date:
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April 13, 2008 04:42:26am |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: What do you think of my "Essential Grateful Dead?" |
You may want to add at least 1 item from fall of 79 to keep somedarkhollow happy.
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Poster:
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northstar dead |
Date:
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April 13, 2008 09:01:06am |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: What do you think of my "Essential Grateful Dead?" |
Funny about 5/8/77 always being mentioned as overrated. Was listening to the first set of that fine show last night. I just don't get it. Sometimes people read and hear about something and start believing it themselves. If someone gave you 5/8/77 on tape without any knowledge of the show, you are telling me you would think,"this is an o.k. show and way overrated?
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Poster:
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William Tell |
Date:
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April 13, 2008 01:59:39pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: What do you think of my "Essential Grateful Dead?" |
I am not being an asshole. I did exactly this. Well, actually, it was long before I knew about this show (ten yrs ago), long before LMA. A fellow knowing of my fall from grace, said he had five shows from 76-79 that would bring me back (don't recall the others).
They were all on cassettes, but they were pretty darn good sounding (he had a great system). But, I am sorry to say, all five left me confident in having turned away from the boys, and to focusing on the early era. I thought they were all "OK to worthwhile" but that was it.
Strange, I know, but sorta funny once I got here two yrs ago and found out how important that show was!
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Poster:
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northstar dead |
Date:
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April 14, 2008 07:18:47am |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: What do you think of my "Essential Grateful Dead?" |
Different sound but same band. So the sound evolved as the Dead did. I can appreciate all the different years for what they were. Come on dog enjoy some 70's and 80's shows. Don't turn your back on some great stuff.
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Poster:
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Lou Davenport |
Date:
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April 13, 2008 02:25:44pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: What do you think of my "Essential Grateful Dead?" |
The entire Spring 1977 run is fantastic, so of course Barton Hall is a great show. But there are several shows from that tour that I enjoy listening to more than it, including all shows from the March and June Winterland runs and the week of 5-18 to 5-25. As I said earlier, Barton Hall is exceptionally tight and clean but too conservative for my tastes.
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Poster:
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northstar dead |
Date:
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April 13, 2008 05:50:44pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: What do you think of my "Essential Grateful Dead?" |
Agree, 77 is such a strong year. And so many great shows. I love the June Winterland shows, Buffalo, Swing, Chicago, Springfield, Hartford etc... Just a question, when is the last time you listened to the show? I am not saying it is my favorite show ever, not by a long shot. But the vibe was there that night.
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Poster:
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Lou Davenport |
Date:
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April 13, 2008 07:14:21pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: What do you think of my "Essential Grateful Dead?" |
I've listened to discs 2 and 3 within the past year, but disc 1 not so recently (and I promise to do so soon). I agree with you about the vibe, but I'm a bloodless aesthetician looking for musical interest much more than atmosphere.
Another judgment that has long bewildered me is the celebration of the 8-6-71 Hard to Handle. Pig's much weaker than in any number of 1970 renditions. And Jerry's guitar solo, while stirring (especially in the aud, where you hear how worked up everyone's getting), has very little musical content. By contrast, the solo the night after entertains me more even though it's not as solid.
This post was modified by Lou Davenport on 2008-04-14 02:14:21
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Poster:
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William Tell |
Date:
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April 14, 2008 08:58:58am |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: What do you think of my "Essential Grateful Dead?" |
Yikes Lou! We agree on so much...I find Jerry's work on this in my top five all time...AUD defn lends to that.
Ah well--if we all agreed everytime it wouldn't be worth coming round here, would it?
Hope all is well!
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Poster:
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Lou Davenport |
Date:
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April 14, 2008 12:50:54pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: What do you think of my "Essential Grateful Dead?" |
If you want ideal examples of what aspects of Jerry's playing I most enjoy, you could listen to practically any minute of the Winterland 1973 box (damn, I'm enjoying that set!), which I believe you own--but in particular the Me and Bobby McGee and Eyes from 11/11. The M&BM is one of the most astonishing performances of anything I've ever heard.
I've been crazy busy and am nursing a mild head cold, but generally I'm enjoying life--thanks for asking. And yourself?
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Poster:
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William Tell |
Date:
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April 14, 2008 01:02:28pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: What do you think of my "Essential Grateful Dead?" |
Well, thanks.
Hah--do appreciate the work of Jerry on that 73 set. See exactly what you mean. Truth is though, I prefer the "punch" to his sound from the 71 versions of most of those same songs. The 73 is almost a bit too polished, a bit too jazzy, though I doubt that makes much sense. My friend who is a long time lead guitarist said "fall of 73 is where Jerry is a musicians lead guitarist" and though I don't know entirely what that means either, I have a sense of it...I know from conversations with MSun here that I often go for sounds based on energy and punch rather than pure proficiency, and I know you well enough to know you probably see/hear things I cannot too, just as MSun can...
Like I said--that's why we are here. To hear ourselves talk, and to pick up some education now and again.
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Poster:
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Lou Davenport |
Date:
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April 14, 2008 01:14:21pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: What do you think of my "Essential Grateful Dead?" |
Energy and punch? Well, that's why you're so obsessed with the 12-29-68 The Other One. BTW, have you listened to 2-27-69 TOO recently? I did a few nights ago, and it struck me as Phil's equivalent of what Jerry was doing on 12-29-68.
Jazzy is what I most love from the boys, though I also like the fierce edge of 68-69, but best when they're also being jazzy, as in the 3-1-69 TOO or in the jamming in New Potato Caboose.
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Poster:
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William Tell |
Date:
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April 14, 2008 01:24:19pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: What do you think of my "Essential Grateful Dead?" |
LOL; yep, that's it!
Will have to check out the Fillmore OO you mention again...
Also recalled that the bass player I knew (these two were in the band I worked for as a low rent roadie) also thought of 73 as the peak.
I can accept that in many ways the boys got better, and better, and may have peaked in 73 (77?) rather than 68-70 for a number of aspects...suppose that at times it is almost apples/oranges when I am saying "68 is best!" as I am talking about something a bit different, as you note.
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